tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN September 18, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
cnn exclusive, sources say u.s. yafrts wiretapped paul manafort after the election. joining us is page la brown who broke the story and have the details about why the government was listening to someone so close to the president. pam, what have you learned? >> anderson, the fbi got permission to monitor paul manafort before and after the election. this is an extraordinary step for the fbi to do surveillance of a high-ranking campaign official. and, of course, manafort is at the center of the russia meddling probe. we're told that are intercepted communications whether manafort was encouraging russians to help with the campaign. other sources cautioned that this intelligence was not
conclusive. robert mueller's team has been provided all these communications. >> what do you mean by the word encouraging? >> to be clear, there's a lot we don't know exactly about what was said in these intercepted communications. but what we're told by sources is the fbi has communications between suspected russian operatives and manafort himself. this is not a smoking gun in this investigation, and there's still more work being done to determine whether it's a criminal violation here. we didn't get a comment from a part of an part of an spokesman, but manafort previously denied that he knowingly communicated with russian intelligence operatives during the election and he's denied them undermining u.s. interests. >> do we know exactly when? >> we have a little insight into
when this secret order began after manafort became the subject of an fbi investigation in 2014. it centered on work done by a group of washington consulting firms. the surveillance was discontinued at some point last year for lack of evidence according to one of the sources, and then the fbi restarted the surveillance after obtaining a new warrant, a new fisa warrant. they were investigating ties between trump campaign associates and suspected russian operatives. we've learned earlier this year the fbi also conducted a search of a storage facility belonging to manafort. and this past july, anderson, as you know, his home in virginia was raided by the fbi. >> that's important. we don't know when the second warrant began, but it lasted the
beginning of this year. do we know whether president trump spoke with manafort while manafort was under surveillance? >> this is what's interesting, anderson. we've been told by sources that the president and manafort were still talking earlier this year, well after they campaigned during the same time frame the fbi was listening to manafort's phone. it is certainly possible that those conversation were collected. >> so was the president right when he tweeted early on that he learned that obama had tapped his wires? >> he was specific to having his wires tapped and the justice department has come out and denied that the president's own lines were wiretapped. as we said, it is entirely possible he was picked up on the manafort surveillance, and we should note that manafort has a residence in trump tower, though it's not clear if the fbi did surveillance on him there,
anderson. >> appreciate it. want to bring in the panel. scott jennings, a ssia, how tou as it to get two fisa warnings? >> there's a statistic out there that only some hajd handful of orders get rejected, but that's because they go through a lot of vetting before they get to the fisa court. you're listing the factual assertions to believe the probable cause this person is an agent of a foreign power and engaging in clandestine -- therefore the electric swains will give you intelligence information. i've been through as an agent,
the doj lawyers come back and make you support every statement in that affidavit before they will walk it into a court. so we're talking, you know, many, many hours that go into this application. >> is it unusual that the first one -- i guess it would lapse or they would let it go, or they didn't find whaerp looking for and get another one down the road. >> it's not necessarily unusual. for a u.s. person, the government has to go back into the fisa court every 90 days and say we told you we thought we were going to get foreign intelligence information, here's what we got in the last 90 days. if they go to check in and they haven't gotten anything, the court is going to say you need to shut this down until you can justify restarting it. sounds like in this case they weren't getting something for a period of time. it was shut down. to me this says the system is working the way it should, the checks are there. and then they got information he
was communicating with the russians and they were able to put together a new application to restart it. >> there's a lot we don't know obviously, even the timing. what do you make of it? >> this is something that's been an issue of ongoing concern for people around trump going all the way back to the campaign. according to cnn's story, what prompted the second warrant was manafort's connections to a political party in ukraine connected to former president. n his name showed up on ledgers that seemed to suggest he got millions of dollars in cash payment. there's been a sense for a long time this is potentially problematic, and i think this is that same problem rearing its head once again. >> i think it's tempting to say it looks suspicious if you can get a fisa warrant for them to listen on you, that it looks
suspicious. to your point of all theory gore they go through, there is issue that there's nobody there to represent -- to provide a counterargument to what is being argued. >> individualized like this, no. presumably it's an article 3 federal judge that's going to hold this to a high standard. in this case knowing this was somebody potentially associated with the campaign, i think a judge might have -- >> does this concern you. >> the impact of people that may have been spoken to manafort on the phone during these periods. if you work in the administration today, you're thinking, my gosh, did i talk to this phone during the period of this wiretapping. i'm already worried about the massive legal bills. the white house counsel doesn't represent you as a white house
staffer, they only represent the office of the president. that's a concern and causes high anxiety among people who need to be focused on running the country. i have concern about the political impact. if it's true what the "new york times" says tonight and manafort is going to be indicted, if others get indicted between now and the midterms, what impact does that have on the republican party? the subpoenas will fly. articles of impeachment will fly. this is another concerning moment. >> those things are all of concern, not from a perspective of who's going to win or lose the midterm elections. everything you just said should be concerning to all of us as americans regardless of our party or whose party it helps or hurts. i think you're right, we don't know everything from mr.
manafort's perspective. but a fisa warrant is different than how people think of their local police department warrants. sometimes we think of those as fishing expeditions. that is not an equivalent comparison to a fisa warrant which are much more specific and have true checks and balances which we see working here. that we have this panel, that we have this reporting, that we have this issue being discussed is a terrible statement about the state of the presidency of the united states right now regardless of what happens. and if he went to who's going to cut what deals between the house, the senate and the white house, this is a moment of real political potential crisis in the core of our democracy. >> it's also possible that they go after manafort in order to get him to cut a deal. they indict him on one thing being an agent of a foreign government without registering and hope he flips if there's
something to flip on. >> absolutely. and you have michael flynn out there too. you have the former national security adviser in a vulnerable position, potentially willing to talk. scott, you make a valid point. there is a political aspect to this, and donald trump, we've been talking about the pivot, maybe he did start to pivot. he had john kelly as his chief of staff, maybe starting to rein some things in. he was working on on bipartisan fashion on the daca deal. nancy pelosi was basically booed off stage in san francisco today. so this is a guy who has been the -- the bar is low, but on a roll for donald trump. he seems like he might have turned the corner and this story has come back. >> we'll have more after the break including more reporting on tactics that robert mueller's investigators are taking as well as colorful color on the raid of
paul manafortose home. how the fbi got into his house. later, the president's u.n. diplomatic debut in a series of tweets. hurricane maria category 5 heading straight for puerto rico. over the course of 9 days... steve chooses to walk 26.2 miles, murk zombie and he does it with dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl's. born to move. huricane maria ricane maria
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category . and i couldn't wait to get my pie chart. the most shocking result was that i'm 26% native american. i had no idea. just to know this is what i'm made of, this is where my ancestors came from. and i absolutely want to know more about my native american heritage. it's opened up a whole new world for me. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. exclusive on paul manafort wiretapping russia and also tonight a "new york times" report saying how mueller's team has been pursuing the
investigation. according to "the new york times" tonight when the fbi raided his home they picked his look while he was still asleep. came in and they got documents and copied computer files. later, prosecutors wardens mr. manafort we're planning to indict you. is that standard procedure they would tell somebody that? >> they can tell a target of an investigation that they are a target. if they did let him now he was going to be indicted, it could be pressure if they want him to talk, for example, this is coming and this is your chance. with the search warrant, i have to admit i was surprised when i heard it was a no-knock warrant. they picked the lock and break down the door. you think someone is going to get rid of evidence. for whatever reason, they believe that he was going to destroy something. a judge did sign off on it.
>> so a jungle would have to approve that in advance? >> you would have to justify it to a judge that you have to take that extra intrusive step of potentially using a battering ram to knock the door down. a judge is going to have to sign their name to it. when we talk about the targets in this investigation, every judge knows their name is -- whether it's a fisa order or search warrant. so i think they will always be scrutinizing it with extra care. >> if they are picking the lock to get in the house, does that mean the fbi picks a lock and open the door and they announce, fbi we're here, or do they go into the office and try to get files. >> they will announce. i think what they would do is you would have a team of agents. probably the lead agent would go to his bedroom directly. >> they would try to inform him as soon as possible. >> they want to make sure they can secure the location.
people react poorly when you barge into their house. >> i would imagine. >> if someone's got a weapon. so they're going to go directly to him and secure anyone else in the house. sometimes you have screaming children. it's a chaotic situation, but they will secure everybody and then go to all the items. >> but it's really very significant. >> it is. it's a huge step. >> and it's not -- it's probably less typical in high-profile situations like this. >> right. >> that are kind of corruption and ethics related on the highest level to have this kind of a warrant. it really is very extreme, to even think of the cases when you think of high-level government corruption, you don't have these kind of -- >> is not that part of a message to show you're doing tough tactics? shock and awe that that's how some people are interpreting how
must reca mueller is going about this? >> i don't think of mueller as someone who needs to do that. he's marine, purple heart, he's mueller. once he's on you, i think you already know he means business. >> digital evidence they might have. i'm not a cyber expert, so i don't know how quickly that can be deleted or something, but they clearly had some concern that something was going to disappear. >> it means something, either he's trying to make a point, which i tend to degree with you, or it means they thought that manafort could get rid of it quickly, but it doesn't mean nothing. >> whether or not the aggressive approach was meant to send a message, the fact is it did send a message. i called around today with folks who were in the periphery who spoke with and knew manafort and they're worried about the way this went down in what seems to be this closing in around
manafort and what the "times" reporter was likely an indictment. >> he was talking about the economic impact on a wide circle of people who happened to have been in a room and all of a sudden they have to get a lawyer and they can't accept gifts so they have to pay for it themselves. >> they were more wared about reputational damage. that hurts in you're a young staffer but it tarnishes your name that might make you radioactive. >> does it make people suspect each other? does it make people kind of question everything? >> i asked that question too. coincidentally. and the snide answer i got was there isn't a lot getting done in this white house, but i would imagine it would. we heard stories that white house staffers are nervous about talking to each other. there's been talk that they might be wired, all sort of
suspicion that already existed before this story came out. >> you worked for george w. bush. you want to trust the people you work with. i can't imagine if my work environment if i was worried that everybody around was leaking stuff or potentially being pursued on criminal charges. >> i worked in a white house that was being invested. i worked for carl rowe. there's anxieties and stress that goes along with this. sure, there's the possibility you could suspect your coworker is listening to your conversation, but the real impact is on your mental statement you have an extraordinarily stressful job at the white house. it's an important place. layer that on top of it, you worry about the mental impact of focusing on your job while the anxieties is seeping in about maybe not what's just happening to you, but the people around
you. >> i think there's also a toll -- this is an obvious point that bears repeating. this is an unprecedented situation. maybe you've been reading too much facebook, i don't know. this could look like they are trying to go after a candidate who's running for president that they are spying on him, that they are wiretapping trump tower. i think that obviously there's the other side. paul manafort was a pretty very muchy guys guy who was involved in very questionable things. but i think this obviously takes a big toll on the country. and i'm pretty sure you can expect some conservatives saying that it's not -- >> we're going to get a quick break. when we come back, new reporting from the "new york times" where
the attorney thsaid white house lawyers were disagreeing with how much to cooperate and said they have documents locked in a safe. back with the panel now. i said the carl bernstein how much easier watering would have been if they were talking about secret recordings at restaurant. it's amazing that you hear people talking on the train, like doctors or businesspeople saying inappropriate things, but this level -- >> you think of this level with lawyers. you expect lawyers to be circumspect considering the kind of relationship they have with their clients. it would be like a psychiatrist talking openly about one of their clients. the fact they are recognizable and people know who they are, this is wife consistent with donald trump. he's got a lot of people around him that aren't really ready for rime time. with something so sensitive as this works they're going to get themselves into some real
trouble here. >> literally if you were trying to get something out in public, you would do it at that place. it's the worst place possible. and then to be recognized, if he didn't have that handle bar mustache, they probably wouldn't have noticed it was him. it's pretty amazing. in defense of the lawyers, if you ever worked on a campaign or even covered a campaign, you have nothing else to talk about. you want to go out to lunch and you have nothing else to say, they could not have picked a worse place. >> that's why the lawyers don't go out with the field staff. they have to go home because -- >> more remote table or o back room for something. >> sidewalk cafe, they were on the street next to "the new york times." it's like standing on 8th avenue and 40th street and screaming things at "the new york times." it's insane. >> the thing that's so shocking
is these aren't campaign staffers. these are washington wisemen with a years of experience who are brought in specifically because they don't do bone headed things like the staffers do. >> suddenly the attorney is back in new york. he's an experience washington guy. >> this is second issue recently. before this it was that he was fooled by an e-mail prankster into answering a whole bunch of questions. >> this is third incident after he asked a reporter if she was on drugs in that extended -- >> in terms of revealing information, he revealed -- >> as opposed to being just incompetent. >> if i'm the president, i'm calling these guys in tomorrow, after he finishes with the u.n. you have to give these guys a good trashing. this is not acceptable at this level. >> not everybody's the
president's attorney. they're not his personal attorneys, so he doesn't have the same attorney-client privilege. >> i don't know what kind of clown shoe operation they're running, but i'm embarrassed as an attorney. you have an ethic cal duty toward your client. he's the personal attorney. he's defending trump in his personal capacity. ty cobb is a part of the white house counsel. they have different privileges they need to protect. they might have an agreement that they can discuss things this private. however, once you blab it on a sidewalk in front of the narcotics and a therapy heaird hears it, it opens the door. there's that issue. they also disclosed information that's going on inside the white house, that there might be a
document inside the safe. if i'm mueller, i'm going to see that document. and i won't stop until i find it. >> you know what this speaks to, is a lack of within the trump administration and from the president himself, taking the functioning of government seriously. you're saying he shouldn't call the attorneys in, these people were hired by the president of the united states. he's the head of this organization. their arrogance and lack of believing that the legal rules apply to them completely mirrors the president of the united states. what you just talked about is critical to the functioning of government. i know that from what i was in the city council, and they have a total disregard for government. >> a couple guys screwed up up, no question, but i think some of the people are acting professionally. the white house counsel is doing a terrific job, not just handling this investigation auxiliary but he's got a big, full plate of things he's working on which appears to be
going on. judicial appointments is going very well. these two guys messed up, but i wouldn't -- >> they're not guys. they're significant people. >> i think some people are acting very well and i think mcgahn is one of them. >> he's the counsel to the president of the united states. and the private lawyer to the president of the united states. these are not two entry level staffers that made a rookie mistake. >> they are two guys that made a mistake. >> two very high-level guys i'm sure the president picked who should be at the pinnacle of the legal profession and understand all the requirements that comes to them as officers of the court. >> even separate from that, honestly, would any of us sit there and have a private conversation in this restaurant or any restaurant in this day and age? i wouldn't. >> i've stopped so many conversations with friends, like, this is not happening. the fact that he was able too
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moment, he was tweeting about hillary clinton. the president retweeted this doctored animated gif showing himself hitting a golf that happens apps to hit hillary clinton in the back boarding a plane. former vice president joe biden just weighed in tweeting, just had the chance to see golf swing tweet. enough. this has to stop. our children are watching. president trump also aimed at north korea calling kim jong-un rocket man. iran and syria and russia in the mix. back with the panel. the main message at the u.n. is make the united nations great. he did take his speech as an opportunity also talk about the large building that he built that was highly successful right across from the u.n., which is right elbow a u.n. first. >> definitely. everyone keeps expecting him to
be presidential and in certain circumstances, he is. this thing he tweeted about hillary clinton is repulsive in my opinion. it's violent, actually, if you look at it. it's violence against a woman who was the first female nominee for president of the united states. it's just so disrespectful. i don't know what to say anymore. you get to this point where you think, what do you say to this man? >> in the past he said it was a retweet. in his mind, there's some different between retweeting somebody else's -- >> retweets don't equal endorsements. >> it's a tweet from the president of the united states. it's not a joke. it's not funny. it's violent. i look at that as a woman and i
see violence, actually. for him to be retweeting something like that, get over it, grow up, seriously. when is he going to grow up? >> i agree. get over it. also, by the way, you won. really, how much of a bully are you that you can't even -- you're a sore winner tooflts. he's going to the united nations, an entity made up of female leaders far before we will ever have one. what message does that send to those nations and the women and girls in those nations and the women leaders who have broken barriers in those countries? it makes the former united states senator a former secretary of state, a joke. >> you don't have to be a hillary clinton supporter.
this is an accomplished woman who has achieved something historic in our country and in the world. just a little respect. >> scott, how do you see it? >> i tend to think of words like other commodities, the more there are, the less value there is. he's tweeting about things -- >> it was pictures. >> it dilutes the important things. i tend to think that he shouldn't focus on tweeting about the things that do have an impact on us every day. these international situations, hurricanes, tax reform. we're sitting at 49 votes at a possible obamacare reform. there are a lot of impactful things going on, this is not one of those things. the more you do, the less impactful it becomes. i don't mind him communicating
via tweets. i am the more of the tweets to be on point with serious policies. >> scott, do you mind him tweeting an image that happened to have no words as i understand it of him swinging a golf ball, that golf ball flying through air into another image and knocking secretary clinton onto her face? how do you feel about that? i think we all agree he shouldn't focus on world events. >> i don't approve of it. i don't like it. i don't mind if you have levity in your tweets. i don't particularly find it funny. there's a difference of opinion on that. >> no, there's not. >> my point sthrks when you're the president, you could find things to say that might be funny but not also be offensive at the same time which a lot of people are certainly offended by this. with the mass amount of stuff that's on his plate, i want to
see more communications of an impactful nature. >> to me not taking yourself seriously is tweeting out an image of your hat blowing off and your hair going wild and that you look silly or did you mean. that's not taking yourself seriously. i don't think this president would ever do something in which people are laughing at him because as we know, that's a common refrain that the world is laughing at him. >> and he thinks violence is funny. i don't want to be too dramatic about it, but he said that during the campaign. i'm paraphrasing, if i stand on 5th avenue and i shoot someone, i'll still be president of the united states. we know he did you notice take violence veerls in the way that it should be taken seriously. >> she's been on tv questioning the validity of the election. i think partly this was a
reaction to that. he doesn't seem to be able to help himself. >> seems to me there's a difference in how he treats women in this public sphere and men. i don't know that he would do -- with that same image be tweeted out by him if it was a guy who got hit by the golf ball? >> i seriously doubt it. he seems obsessed with hillary clinton. we can all agree on that. by her own admission, the other person he's object benefited with is president obama. he's particularly irked by hillary clinton because she's a woman, period. >> it's strong, opinionated women. >> when we come back, i want to get your take on spicer back on the podium making fun of how he lied about the inaugural crowd size and now saying he regrets
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from sean spicer. >> sean, do you know? [ cheers and applause ] >> this will be the largest audience to witness an emmys, period, both in person and around the world. >> wow. that really soothes my federal government . >> there was obviously reference to when sean spicer lied about the size of president trump's inaugural crowd, telling people not to believe their own eyes. back now with the panel. obviously apparently it was steven colbert's idea to do this. a lot of people took offense. he's now apparently told "times" he does regret trashing the
press turnover inauguration. >> i'm amazed at the -- first of all, i like it when people make fun of themselves. if you're a strategist go on insul saturday night live and make fun of yourself. this is a guy who didn't just lie to the media on a daily basis, he berated the news media by name and sometimes humiliated them. now they're helping rehabilitate. he >> he now makes this pivot to
tell "the new york times" i do regret with hai regret. with hannity he said he doesn't regret it at all. >> i don't think that stephen colbert should have done this. everything substance exactly right. this is somebody who just stood up there and screamed and yelled at reporters and berated them. he probably would have stayed there if he hadn't fallen out of favor with donald trump. i don't think he shouldn't help him rebrand himself. >> this is about more than sean spicer too. but welcoming him into popular culture, it sends a message to future white house officials that you can be an aggressive, outrageous liar, but long term it's not going to do you any damage. you can be a celebrity
afterwards. i don't think that's a message that hollywood should be sending. >> i think this is natural progression of things. we have entertainers who are looking at running for president in 2020, so it's only nool natural that they would float back towards entertainment industry. you'll never catch me criticizing anybody with a family and young children trying to do whatever it is they have to do to earn a living. this guy found himself in a highly unusual political circumstances. these decision. nobody forced him at gunpoint to go out there and lie to the president. >> done the honorable thing and resign. >> it's not like he's living on the street. oh, my gosh, he had a job before he went there. >> he is a wealthy person -- >> no, but -- if he's now in the
speakers circuit which is how he can make a lot of money that way, he would probably had been more valuable had he actually resigned in protest out of -- >> i don't think that's true. in the bush white house we had a press secretary who resigned in protest and scott mcclen lan was famous for about 15 minutes and where is the guy today? >> look, sean spicer made a decision. no one forced him to do it. but i think the bigger issue that's being discussed here is sean spicer was the mouthpiece for a long time for an administration who didn't just humiliate individual reporters, had a strategic plan to attack journalism repeatedly, even if it resulted in threatening behavior towards reporters, which is well documented. so this is a man who didn't just stretch the truth every now and then. he participated in a well orchestrated campaign to erode
the -- >> and now liberals in hollywood -- >> right. >> are promoting him. and i think -- i've always had this sort of role that anytime somebody gets a profile done of them, it's inherently glamourous. if somebody -- if steve bannon gets a profile done of him and you think that you've ripped him to shreds but he's on the cover of rolling stone, it's glamour eyesed. it's what they want. and i think that he is beating -- >> i agree. >> by people who really -- >> know better. >> i think you're right about those articles is because so many people just -- even if they've read the article, what really rej sterz is the people. i've had articles that i thought were awful about me. i saw that article and it was great. did you actually read it? no, not really but this was the picture and it seemed like it was nice. >> if somebody becomes famous. >> right. >> and even if they're he can centric, and so that's -- >> ask it reflects, in my opinion, a very serious trend in america of not taking journalism
seriously, and that's a major danger to our democracy. >> thanks everybodyment up next, going to get the latest on the hurricane maria, the forecast, some of the same islands that were hit by you are ma are directly in its path. we'll get a quick update right after the break. this is your new name. this is your new house. and a perfectly inconspicuous suv. you must become invisible. [hero] i'll take my chances. ♪ ♪ ♪
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there's more breaking news. we've just learned that hurricane maria has just made landfall. a prrm posting to his facebook page my roof is gone. i'm at complete mercy of the hurricane. house is flooding. a short time later, i have been rescued. so where is the storm? what's the latest tonight? >> so, again, as you mentioned, it has now officially made landfall at 9:15 p.m. eastern time as a category 5 storm. winds 160-mile-per-hour. the storm is moving west
northwest at 9-mile-per-hour. slowly over the island of domestic knee ka. we need to talk about how impressive this storm is and how quickly it intensified. this is sunday at 5:00. this is when it first became a hurricane. okay? so going 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. tonight, going from a tropical storm all the way up to a category 5 storm. or even this morning, take for example 5:00 a.m., it was still a category 1 storm. 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m., going from a category 1 to a category 5 storm. the unfortunate part of it being a category 5 storm is it is expected to stay a category 5 storm. in fact, it's expected to increase up to 165 miles per hour after it gets back out over some open water. it is expected to make landfall on puerto rico as a category 5 stormment the question is whether or not it maintains that 165-mile-per-hour range or if it
weakens slightly just before it hits puerto rico. that's important. that distinction is, because the previous category 5 storm, and there's only been one to ever hit puerto rico, that was back in 1928. but it had winds of 160. so if it can maintain winds of 165, it will end up being the strongest to remember to ever hit the island of puerto rico. the last time they had a category 4 was back in 1942. again, this is going to be an incredibly strong storm as it continues on this track, anderson. >> any sense of what this means for the u.s.? >> so there's been a lot of comparisons to irma with this storm as it goes through the caribbean. so here is what we can show you. this yellow line right here, that was irma's path. the red line is maria. it's starting out a little bit further south t. will cross over a very similar point. and then it's actually going to go a little bit further north than irma's path was. at this point everybody wants to know what does that mean for
florida and some of the other areas that were impacted by irma. here is a look at the model comparison. very good agreement up to the point of puerto rico. it's after that that the models split off and they have a pretty good distance between the two of them. the blue dot is the european, the red dot the american. you can see it pushes it a little bit closer to the u.s. it's all because of this high. where that high pressure system ends up, if it stays in place, anderson, it will spin clockwise and stay in the atlantic. if it goes to the west, it would actually push maria into the states. >> thanks very much. i've got to wrap it here. thanks for watching. time to hand things over to don lemon. cnn tonight starts now. cnn exclusive, noous on the russia investigation. cnn has learned that government investigators wire-tapped former trump campaign chair paul manafort under secret court orders before and